I sat down with Camille Van Niekerk to talk about the benefits of music education this morning. Camille is a professional singer and vocal instructor in Southern California. She holds a BA in music education from Azusa Pacific University, where she graduated Summa cum laude and teaching credentials from San Diego State University. She also developed the vocal curriculum for 30 Day Singer.

You can learn more about Camille at https://www.camillevanniekerk.com/

You can book a voice lesson with Camille here.

5 Benefits of Music Education

While the full interview transcript is available later in this blog post, I wanted to highlight one of my favorite parts of the interview: the benefits of music education for kids. According to Camille, the five benefits of music education for kids are:

1. Creative outlet: Music provides kids with something to work on that doesn’t require a screen that’s fun and rewarding.
2. Self Expression: Music provides kids with an opportunity to express themselves.
3. Emotional Regulation: Playing a musical instrument is a powerful tool for managing emotions, especially stress or frustration.
4. Sense of Accomplishment: The process of learning new skills, whether it’s a new song or a new vocal technique, provides kids with a powerful sense of accomplishment.
5. Fun Homework: While learning to play a musical instrument can be challenging, music is inherently fun and rewarding!

Music Education Interview (Full Transcript)

Brian Parham 0:00
Fear.

Hi, my name is Brian Parham, and I’m the founder of the rock dojo. And I’m so excited to interview Camille today for today’s episode of why music education matters? So Camille? The first question is, well, first of all, tell us a little bit about your background. All right, thank you for having me. First of all, um, I was a musical theater kid growing up. And I thought that I would study musical theater in college follow in my sister’s footsteps. She went to UCLA. And then I started thinking about it a little more deeply and decided, you know, the dancing in the acting, I’m not so good at but the music, that’s I’ve got that down. And I couldn’t think of anything else that I would rather do with the rest of my life. And so I studied music education with a choral emphasis and got my teaching credential, and decided very quickly that classroom teaching was not my strength.

CAMILLE VAN NIEKERK 1:12
So I pivoted to private teaching. And I really love that. So I teach voice lessons to, you know, as young as five as old as you know, somewhere in their 80s. So that’s where I’m at right now, teaching voice and singing for recording projects.

Brian Parham 1:30
Yeah, and I have to say, I mean, I’m a huge advocate of your voice lessons. When COVID hit I the first thing I need to learn how to sing, I need to learn how to sing in tune. And so I connected with you via 30-Day Singer. And I have to say, those lessons, even though I’m not a singer, and I still am challenged for singing in tune, but those lessons opened up my ears. And so for any musician who wants to improve, not just their ability to sing, but their ability to improvise their ability to write melodies to compose great music, I have to say that was one of the most profound, I guess, musical experiences of my life. And you took me through just like the Olympics of intervals. Never, ever, ever, in all my years of making music, I’ve seen such challenging intervals or such creative ways to use those intervals.

CAMILLE VAN NIEKERK 2:32
So one thing that comes to mind as you’re speaking is, I wish that singing were a part of every instrumentalist training, because as you say, if you can hear something and understand either via solfege or numbers, however, and think about pitches. If you can sing it, you can play it. And so I really wish that that was more common. I think that string players, specifically, you know, violinists, sing a little bit more often in their training. But with, you know, most band instruments, that’s not the case. But yes, I’m, I’m glad you enjoyed that. I think I really love ear training and sight-reading because it’s the one aspect of music that is pretty objective. There’s a lot of subjectivity, especially in teaching voice, like, is the tone good? You know, did it sound good? And so yeah, you’re training, it’s like, it’s in tune, or it’s not in tune. And that, like cutting dryness of it is, it’s kind of fun for me. I’m sorry. I’m giggling because I remember something that you told me during one of our lessons. I remember, you know, when people try to sing, it’s such an intimate thing. And when you’re a musician, and you’re getting started singing after playing an instrument for like, 10 years, you know, you’re about to tear. And I remember saying, No, never forget this. I remember saying like, oh, man, I wish I didn’t know. And you told me you haven’t you know what the world would let you know that you were?

Brian Parham 4:08
Yeah, I got such a crack up out of that. But I’m going to go back because we skipped a lot of years here. So my question, my first question for you is, how did you get started in music? I know you vaguely touched on this a little bit, but then you skipped a lot of years. So early years, how did you get started?

CAMILLE VAN NIEKERK

Early years, um, my dad plays piano and sings. And we actually did not have cable television in our house growing up. And so entertainment up until maybe sometime in middle school was just music. Our one extracurricular activity was musical theater and everything that entailed, so no sports. I’m not athletic, but very musical.

Yeah, so it was very much a natural part of our household. So I remember driving in my dad’s Toyota and singing as we’re going to Home Depot to pick up supplies for, you know, the latest home project. And he would teach my sister and me to sing and to harmonize. So now, when I teach people to harmonize, it’s actually a difficult thing to put into words because, for me, it was just this, this very, very natural thing, this like feeling of whether something is in tune or not. But anyway, yeah, my dad, that’s the impetus.

Brian Parham 5:39
And can you tell me about your philosophy as a music educator?

CAMILLE VAN NIEKERK 5:44
Hmm. So my philosophy as a voice teacher, because this comes up a lot, is that everyone can sing. And everyone can improve. And there’s this. There’s this false belief with singing in particular, that either you can sing, or you can’t, you’re a born singer, or you’re not. And I do not deny that natural talent doesn’t exist. It does. That’s why we have the beyond SES and the Whitney Houston’s of the world. But just the physical act of singing and improving those skills and coordination is so possible. And that’s I’m very, very passionate about that because I think it’s it’s a limiting belief for a lot of people. And I also I, this might be slightly unrelated.

But I think we’ve gotten to the point as well, where singing is also a competition in a way that with instruments we don’t have, like an American Idol Guitar Hero show, you know, but we have all of these singing shows where singers are being judged and sorted. And, um, and I wish that weren’t. So I wish that singing was something that we all did in the same way we all speak. And we all, you know, you can learn a sport, you can learn an instrument, for some reason, there’s this stigma around singing that, that I’m afraid I have to disagree with. And so, anyway, I don’t know if that answers the question.

Brian Parham 7:32
Okay, it brings me back to something that I wanted to ask you earlier. And, you know, when I went to music, when I went to music school, originally, I’m going to Berklee College of Music right now. But I went to Portland Community College, which had a professional music program. And I remember studying the history of jazz. And you know, when jazz was coming about, everybody had a piano, we didn’t, you know, people that was their source of entertainment. And there wasn’t the separation between the performer, the professional performer, and somebody who’s like idle, they didn’t have that, and just like music, or something to do, because they didn’t have a lot of other things to do. And you had mentioned in your early childhood, and it just makes me think, like, you know, we live in an age, especially sitting by myself now, and live in an age where you can stay connected all the time. And I can, like, go through a day without having a second of being bored. And it can be really overwhelming on a personal level. It’s one reason why the guitar has kept me sane for, you know, the pandemic the last year because I can actually step away, I can turn off. Well, for me, it’s doing a lot of work. I like to work, work, work, but I think I can stop working in my business, or get away from Netflix, or even, like avoid reading a book on like an iPad, you know, what it means to another screen, and actually sit down and play the guitar. So I think there’s something so much to be said. The other thing that you touched upon, which I feel so deeply as somebody who really struggles to sing and sing in tune, is the fixed mindset versus the growth mindset. I actually come from a family where people, my parents, think that somebody is born smart. And so if you’re not smart, you know what, you’re sorry, you were not lucky. And you’re never going to be successful in life. And like most of my life journey has been like overcoming that early training that like and so related to singing is the same thing I heard my whole life it’s like, you know, you’re either born a singer, and you’re not and works You’re expected just like to be able to sing like, you know, your heroes without doing any training whatsoever. So any other thoughts on that would be great.

CAMILLE VAN NIEKERK 9:49
Yes. So the whole born singer thing. I think what we’re not seeing is all of the information training that went into making that singer so great. Whitney Houston is talked about as an example. And I brought her up earlier. People say, Oh, she was untrained. She never had voice lessons. And that might be true, that may be true that she didn’t have voice lessons and develop this gorgeous voice. And, of course, there is something inherent within her instrument that produces a beautiful tone; she’s got that that’s a gift. Her family said her mom was a singer. Music was a part of growing up in that household. And so you can’t tell me, but that doesn’t count as vocal training. I know that I learned a lot about singing with agility and singing riffs and runs because we just listened to Mariah Carey. Her Christmas album, when we were putting decorations on the tree every single year, she was my first teacher of riffs and runs. And actually, maybe my only teacher. I’ve never had a voice teacher who broke down how to sing a riff or how to break down, you know, what pitches are in there. It’s just all by listening, listen, and repeat. Just learning by rote. So, I think, yeah, I would love to sing to be a part of schools. Even not just within the music classroom, but the same way, you know, we sing our ABCs. And there’s a lot of singing that goes on in the kindergarten classroom. But I’d love for it to be a part of our culture more than because then I think more people would just permit themselves to sing. And wouldn’t develop this huge barrier. Yeah,

Brian Parham 11:54
it’s, you know, I think it’s utterly fascinating. To me, it’s the only word I can think of is like the American idolization of singing, but it’s also the same in the guitar community, for sure. And what it discounts when you look at the person at the top is all the joy that takes place, between the first moment that you pick it up, and the journey that maybe if you eventually get there, what people I think what a lot of people fail to realize who aren’t musicians, this is why I’m doing the show is how much fun and joy and relaxation music brings at every level, even if you’re just getting started. And you could just play a G chord and you can sing a triad over a G chord is like mind blowing Li fun. And I think that that’s one of the things that’s missed out on this, this mindset.

CAMILLE VAN NIEKERK 12:42
Yeah, I think it is very satisfying. I’m not a guitarist, but I’m learning ukulele, you know, bit by bit. And it is so satisfying to play that first four-chord song that, you know, C, G, A minor F, when you’ve got that you’re like, oh, I can play anything. I am. I’m amazing. Um, and I think, you know, what, what would be great, and maybe I need to develop this is basically the first songbook for beginning singers, in the same way, that you have, like, first guitar songs, you know, as a guitar teacher, you know, the two-chord songs, the three-chord songs. As far as I know, that doesn’t exist with current, you know, kind of pop music or music that most people would know. What I would put in there are songs in a limited range.

Because that’s what gets most people, which prevents them from singing as they’re listening to Lady Gaga and Demi Lovato, and they have this crazy, you know, three-plus octave range that they’re utilizing in a song. I don’t have a three-octave range. And, um, so then people are like, well, if I can’t do that, then I can’t sing. And it’s just; it’s so not true. I mean, Bob Dylan, Case in point. But yeah, I think that’s, that’s a good idea. I’ll put that on my to-do list.

Brian Parham 14:13
Okay, well, this brings me to my next question, because you had mentioned earlier about schools and about offering voice lessons or music lessons to kids. So what does music have to offer kids, especially during the pandemic?

CAMILLE VAN NIEKERK 14:27
Hmm. a creative outlet, something to work on that does, as you said, doesn’t require a screen. Um, fun, homework, self-expression, emotional regulation, and a sense of accomplishment when a student brings a song to me that they want to sing and can’t sing it. You know, their voice is cracking, and they’re even scared. To go for those notes. And when we work on it for a couple of weeks and get them to the point where they are singing the song, their voice is holding together, and then they can express themselves with that song. That’s the whole point of technique to me is getting over those hurdles so that you don’t have to worry about whether I will hit the high note. Is my voice gonna crack? And then, you can focus on the lyrics and the story that you’re telling. Many students sign up for the first time for voice lessons during the pandemic because Taekwondo wasn’t happening out there. You know, other sports weren’t happening. And not even young students, adult beginners as well, like you? Well, not exactly like you, but people who told me, I’ve always wanted to do this. And now I finally had the time, and I didn’t have the excuse of not having time anymore. Yeah,

Brian Parham 16:08
You know, I, there’s so many things in there to unpack that I love, but one of the things that you talked about is going from can’t do to can do, and that’s my whole philosophy as a music educator, is that music teaches kids fundamental success skills. Because that process of getting from cannot, I can’t sing this song, I can’t play these four chords to doing I can is this same process? I don’t care if you’re doing singing. I don’t care if you’re doing mathematics later in life if you’re starting a business. The process is the same as creating a vision, right? It’s identifying the challenges, what are the things you talked about, one of the things that range for as an example, maybe you’re having problems with arrangement, you’re having some thoughts or something else.

But that process of getting in there, creating that vision, identifying the problems, and then putting into work to solve those problems. And then, and then moving that process indefinitely, is the process of success in music or any other endeavor? So I just love that you talked about that. And emotional regulation. That’s a term I haven’t heard, but it likes us. I hear it, and it makes so much sense. And that’s exactly what I was talking about. I can’t tell you why. This is why I wish people could experience more people can experience music, which is how fundamentally uplifting and joyful, just like you singing a note or playing a note on the guitar. It’s so much fun if more people only knew how much fun it is.

CAMILLE VAN NIEKERK 17:40
But go ahead. I do hope, though, I hope, and I do believe that. It doesn’t have to be music for everybody. You can have that same feeling that same like three hours went by and where did it go with another activity. And so I think, you know, even more than I want everybody to be singing and loving music. I want people to be having that experience. You know, so even if it’s not, if it’s not singing, I want it to be something. But yeah, I mean, name name, a time that you had spent, you know, an hour or two playing your guitar or for me singing name a time that didn’t make you feel better, you know? So true. So true. You know, often with me, I’m doing this crazy thing called the 10,000-hour practice challenge. It started as a 750-hour practice challenge. And then it ballooned because it gets a 750, which is too much fun. And I did it so easy. It was effortless. I did 700; I think I did almost $900 in one year. And I’m like, Oh, I can, you know a lot. It takes about 10,000 hours to master like to become at the level of like my heroes, you know, these people that I admire and all this stuff. And I’m having fun every step of the way.

Brian Parham 19:02
But there are days because I run a business and all that I do a lot of business building, where it’s like, you know, sometimes it’s like 10 p.m., I haven’t gotten any time I need to hit three hours a day. And sometimes I’m like, Oh man; I really don’t want to do. It’ll be the most fun of my day. And it’s like, no matter how I feel about it, I could be miserable about doing just the idea. You know about doing it. And then I grab it in five minutes, all of a sudden, it’s like, I’ve already done my practice, and I’m done. And it’s just like, I feel so uplifted. Now, my next question for you is Oh, sorry, did you want to say something?

CAMILLE VAN NIEKERK 19:35
I would say it’s smart to have the guitars on the wall because you don’t have to get them out of the closet to practice. I think that might be a tricky thing about singing as you always have your instrument with you. But then I think it’s a matter of getting rid of distractions, as you said before, you know, and maybe putting the phone on airplane mode to get those that those practice hours in

Brian Parham 20:00
I live with my phone. It’s a way to get things done. So anyways, How can parents integrate music education into the everyday lives of their kids? So practical, practical steps maybe that parents can use to integrate music into their everyday lives.

CAMILLE VAN NIEKERK 20:18
From a very young age, I think we do a good job at this, or at least some parents do. Having songs for handwashing for bedtime for cleanup. You know, here I am, assuming that people do this, and maybe they’re not. So that would be a very, very easy one. I’m having, you know, that book of Nursery Rhymes that you’re going through with your kid. For older kids, I think that’s where it gets tricky. And I don’t have a good answer for that. But I think with young kids, they’re sponges, though. They’ll latch on to anything that you’re doing. So if you’re singing with them, even if you have, you know, a bad voice, they’ll sing with you.

And hopefully, you’ll set them up with, you know, the freedom to keep on singing. I think. As simple as having music on in the house, having an instrument available in the house, even if you’re not pressuring the kid to play it, or putting them in lessons just having it around. They’ll start noodling around on that keyboard, you know, though, they’ll get interested. Then maybe they’ll ask you for lessons or build a start with an app or an online course, you know, something like that. But yeah, I think having music in the house, and ideally having some singing as a part of your daily routines for young kids, the students I’ve worked with who have the most difficulty tuning their intonation, did not have music in the house. So I have to see a correlation there.

Brian Parham 22:14
That was definitely me. That’s one of the reasons I was giggling so much is, you know, you talked about having songs around. That’s something I’ve never even conceived or even thought about that. You know, having. Now I would love to know what is please, please. What are the dishwashing songs going on in the dishwasher? The handwashing song? Please, please.

CAMILLE VAN NIEKERK 22:42
Brian, I legitimately don’t know a handwashing song. But the cleanup song Clean up, clean up everybody, do your share clean up, clean up. You know this song right here?

Brian Parham 22:54
You’re making me feel bad. I need to step it up in my house and do more dishes. I never heard this. No, I didn’t I No. I don’t okay, but I like it.

CAMILLE VAN NIEKERK 23:05
I before. Um, was this before getting my credential? No. Or as I was getting my credential. I can’t remember I substitute taught for a while. And so that would include elementary classrooms, special needs classrooms. So I think I was exposed to more of that than I otherwise would have been. Yeah, I probably when I said handwashing song. I think I was thinking of the whole beginning of COVID. How long to wash your hand’s thing. And it was like sing Happy Birthday twice. I think that’s probably what I think.

Brian Parham 23:43
You know what I actually see. As an entrepreneur, I’m starting to see a lot of possibilities for you after this. We’ll talk afterward because you’re naming a lot of, I think, the place. I’m just gonna zip it. I don’t want to; I don’t want to give anything away. Okay. Okay. What skills should every young musician focus on developing?

CAMILLE VAN NIEKERK 24:04
Humm. A huge skill is a sense of rhythm and beats. No matter what you play or if you sing, that will serve you so well. Um, this could be specific to a singer, but I think it applies to everyone. Understanding what different chords sound like, and you don’t even have to identify a major chord or anything, but just when the chord has changed—that kind of goes along with rhythm and beats for a singer specifically. We have to understand, for example, how long the introduction of the song is before you come in, or say you come in, not on beat one, but beat three. But a lot of singers develop this. They don’t know how to name it. But I think if we can name it, you know, even better. The ability to imitate what you hear. So that’s the Listen and repeat. I’m singing it. I think pretty easy. We do it somewhat naturally instrumentally. You have to learn a bit of music theory first to get that skill going. Oh, I had another one. And it’s escaped me. Those are a few good ones to start with, though.

Brian Parham 25:41
As you’re saying this on like, wow, these are all the skills that eventually instrumentalists have to unlock if they’re going to reach the higher levels of playing, you know, in the beginning, you’re playing the technical Yes, Camille

CAMILLE VAN NIEKERK 25:54
I remembered. So this isn’t, it’s not a musical skill, per se, although you know what it is the ability to keep going when you make a mistake, even without going out of time. So for the students that I’m teaching sight-reading to, let’s say, we’re not we’re doing doh, doh. Doh. Doh, the ability to even if they miss one of those pitches, not go doh, doh, re Ray Ray, Ray and be singing that, you know, out of time. And I’m sure you come across that with your guitar students too. And I’m interested to know how you counteract that.

Brian Parham 26:44
Well, it’s funny that you say that because I’m actually had this amazing gypsy jazz guitarist who came over for a little jam session. And I had never played gypsy jazz before. And you know, for the type of music that I play. It’s like, Oh, you learn something. And if you make a mistake and go back and you fix it, and you develop your repertoire, right, but for me, it was like, No, you put on the song. And no matter what, I don’t care if it’s your first time seeing it, and you’re reading a chart, you do not stop. And it was like that was incredible, and he was coming from it from like, basically a performance aspect. It’s like if you’re going to get up and you’re going to perform, you know, it’s not like you’re just learning a piece by ruse as you play through it from start to finish any of those improvisations that you screwed up, and you wait for the next time around, and you’ll have another chance to solo.

And it was interesting. And then back to those skills. I think those skills that you had mentioned that every musician should develop is the greatest selling point for instrumentalists, who might be watching this to sign up for music lessons or singing lessons with Camille because it will open up your ears as she was saying, You’re my ability to hear chords, my ability to hear melodies, my ability to hear intervals, but really, it was just like, after studying with you, the weirdest thing happened to me is I was just able to play complete musical phrases, which I couldn’t do before like question answer, like, almost completely, like they were composed musical phrases. And that’s something I’ve never had. And I think it’s because of all those things that you mentioned all your training, pitch recognition, and internalization of the intervals.

CAMILLE VAN NIEKERK 28:29
That’s good. Because I think some students get, they kind of fall off before they get to that point of integration. Because I’ll do your training with what connects it’s, it’s a little bit difficult. So what’s really nice is we’re doing your training, and then in whatever song they’re singing, let’s say they’re having an issue with the melody, their tuning is off, then I’ll go back to Oh, this is a doe fall or this is we’re just walking down the major scale, but we’re starting on the, you know, sixth scale degree. And now that they’ve Sung 654321, or la, sol, fa, mi, re, do, then they’re like, oh, okay, I know how to do that. So I can do it here. The only difference is the timing and then the lyrics that you’re singing it on. So that I think that burden is mostly on the teacher to help to make that integration. But I’m glad that that happened for you.

Brian Parham 29:34
You mentioned solfeggio a few times. I’m curious to know if you could give somebody like give our listeners and viewers like a 62nd crash course in solfeggio for parents who might want to do the dishwashing song in solfeggio.

CAMILLE VAN NIEKERK 29:52
Ah, okay, so if you’ve seen the sound of music, you’ve already had an introduction to solfeggio, so solfeggio, or solfege, is this Hungarian system for classifying pitches. So we have this musical alphabet that goes from A to G and starts over again. But when a student is learning to sight-read, it doesn’t make much sense for us to be going C, D, E, and then having to sing, D, E, F sharp. So rather we make if we’re in the key of C, we make C, our Do, Do, Do, Re, Mi. And they’ve learned those interval relationships or the space between those pitches. When we move to a different key, we just moved Oh, Do Re Mi Oh, man. So essentially, if you learn solfege, you can sing in any key instead of on an instrument. You have to learn all those different key signatures to play in all. What is it? Is it 12? keys?

Brian Parham 31:03
Yes.

CAMILLE VAN NIEKERK 31:04
Okay, don’t turn in all 12 keys. Are sick play in all 12 keys. But

Brian Parham 31:11
I’m just happy. Today, you know, I have a recording of you singing Yankee Doodle is off the hook.

CAMILLE VAN NIEKERK 31:21
Didn’t we do a slow version and a fast version?

Brian Parham 31:24
It is really, really cool. It’s like, you know, I didn’t know that a nursery rhyme can tell you did it. Do you manage it? Okay, so give me I want to be super respectful of your time. And final question. Are there any questions I didn’t ask you that I should have asked?

CAMILLE VAN NIEKERK 31:40
Hmm. Well, one thing that comes to mind is, what’s the most difficult thing about teaching voice specifically? It’s something that I was thinking about on my way here because I do think that the voice is uniquely difficult as an instrument to learn and also to teach. And I hope that doesn’t sound disrespectful to teachers of other instruments. But the fact that the voice, that most of your instrument is hidden within your throat, and the fact that no two people have the same instrument. So if I’m teaching you piano, we could play on the same piano, and it’s gonna sound the same.

And teaching voice no matter what it’s going to sound and feel a little bit different. Me singing something versus my students singing something. So I think, yeah, difficult to teach, but also to learn. And so I have a lot of empathy for students learning. And feeling like their voice is just this thing that they can’t really conceptualize and don’t know how to control. I think I would want to say that’s a very, very common feeling and frustration. And that’s another goal of training your voice is learning how your specific voice functions and what thoughts and cues help you to get the sound that you’re going for because that is as much a part of learning voice as is your training, and you know, stylistic effects and scales and all of that. It’s learning how to master your specific instrument as you learn about voices in general.

Brian Parham 33:45
And if I could add one thing that I would say is, if you’re someone who’s just getting started playing the guitar, don’t wait 10 years until you can play the guitar to start doing voice to them simultaneously will save yourself. I guess, pain, like delayed pain, the throttle says, you know, if you can add those two skills together if you’re playing piano or anything, and you’re thinking about doing singing, just get started at the same time. If you can, now, then watch my personal experience. Having been a musician will help you so much. So where can people go to sign up for music lessons with you or voice lessons with you?

CAMILLE VAN NIEKERK 34:22
So they can go to CamilleVanNiekerk.com. And everything is there. Specifically, if you go to Well, there’s a lessons tab that’ll give you more on my philosophy on teaching. Take you to some YouTube lessons that are free so that you can see my teaching style. But you can also go to the links page, and that’ll take you to again the YouTube channel, my TikTok, and the link to do private lessons over zoom if you choose that. But yeah.

Brian Parham 34:57
And well, the one thing that we haven’t mentioned is you are also an amazing performer, so I’m going to include all the links that you had talked about the ukulele. And so I’ll include a link as well to you performing. And is that something where people can people hire you to perform?

CAMILLE VAN NIEKERK 35:13
They can, actually. So I right now, especially during COVID times, I sing. Let’s say you have a project that you want a vocal on. That’s actually what I’m doing today. After we hang up is singing for somebody’s project, but they have the instrumental done, they have the rap done, and then they want some backing vocals. So you could hire me for that a couple of platforms online, one’s called air gigs, and the other others called sound better. Those are also on my website. So everything’s there that you need. At some point, we might get back to performing live in the future, let’s say at, you know, weddings, restaurants, things like that, currently.

on hold, but great.

Brian Parham 36:04
Are there any projects that you’re working on that you’d like to tell us about?

CAMILLE VAN NIEKERK 36:07
Oh, well, Brian, Humm, I’m working on getting more content on my YouTube channel free lessons. And I will be launching a Patreon very soon to support those efforts. So for a very, very small amount of money, you’ll get a lot of good content, the same quality that I would give to all of my private students so that you can be successful. Being your own teacher with my help, you know, cheerleading and coaching you. But that’s the reality of learning an instrument is that you have to be your own teacher. Try to set you up with the tools to keep making progress, even if you don’t have that regular interaction with an instructor.

Brian Parham 36:57
Camille, thank you so so so much, it’s been such a pleasure speaking with you. I’m gonna ask you to stick around for like, a little bit after I hang up on the on the recording. But thank you so much.

CAMILLE VAN NIEKERK 37:09
My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Check Out Some More Great Music Education Interviews

If you enjoyed this interview with vocalist and music educator, Camille Van Niekerk, don’t forget to check out our other interviews with some of the leading experts in music education.

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• Vocalist, Anne Weiss, talks about music education as a form of wealth.

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